Once upon a time, I was talking about a certain well known wildlife artist with one of my favorite dealers. Mr. Dealer said “Yes, I’ve heard all the stories about how The Unnamed Artist Whom We Are Discussing copies ideas from others. Frankly, I don’t see how you artists keep coming up with new ideas.” And I replied, “Getting out in the field. It’s the best way I know of to stay fresh and keep the ideas flowing.”
My recent trip to Freezeout Lake was just such an inspiration. I normally (a) do not paint birds, and (b) do not like painting subject matter in soft or flat light. Yet the impending snowstorm sweeping down on the Rocky Mountain Front, combined with the sight and sound of a blizzard of snow geese, was the imagery I most wanted to capture right after my return (go figure).
Now, certainly, copying a successful painting idea that has already sold well for another artist probably has more surety as a sale. But I’m not here to make oil reproductions of someone else’s ideas - I’m here to push my own boundaries, even if it’s uncomfortable (which is frequently) and without guarantee of a sale.
What do you think?




Entries (RSS)
April 14th, 2009 at 5:10 am
Julie, it is beautiful. I love atmospheric paintings. I would love to see that migration.
April 14th, 2009 at 8:11 am
I think there is nothing wrong with being inspired or getting ideas from other artists. You said that you took alot of photos of the waterfowl (LOVE the painting BTW!!!!)….now how many artists painted snow geese?????? Maynard Reese…Robert Bateman…Roger Tory Peterson……. there must be a hundred. Flying to the left ro to the right? Clowsy overcast skies or sunny? There are really only so many different variations…it is the style- and you show your paint strokes much more compared to most-……we should of course NEVER copy but I get ideas from other artists all the time. I have seen many great paintings of bison in YS in Hayden valley or in GT in Antelope Flats…and I have pix from there to I want to work from. Is that copying? No, not to me. I see it as flattery.
April 14th, 2009 at 9:20 am
I bellieve that there is really no such thing as a “totally new idea”. With so many people painting animals and nature now and in the past, nearly everything has been at least thought of before. How we approach our painting is what brings the “us” into the piece. The point of view, the technique and mostly the passion is what seperates one painter from another.
I have taken some real risks in painting unusual animals. I don’t do this all the time, but now and then it is a really nice way to learn something more about an animal that is “new” to me. I recently painted a piece of a male and female prairie chicken out on the prairie. I have experienced their amazing mating rutuals for myself and came away inspired. With the painting a little more than half done, I put it away. Who is the world is going to want a painting of PRAIRIE CHICKENS???
I finished the painting way later…just becuse I WANTED to. This painting by the way, sold on opening night at NatureWorks Wildlife Art show. I could have sold it three times that night. So much for only painting “what we know will sell”…
I think an artist should paint what ever it is that moves them based on their own experiences in the field. An artist’s work should tell a story about his or her life and loves. This goes back to the “passion” thing. Passion shows in a painting. How can an artist be passionate about someone else’s experiences?
April 14th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Suzanne, thank you for the kind words!
Lori - there is absolutely nothing wrong with being inspired by others’ work! And I have no idea how many other artists have painted snow geese - probably lots - but it was a new experience, and for me, a new concept. (Thank you for the compliment!). My point has to do with an artist who is known for copying…as in, his/her composition, lighting, color, and so on are very, very close to a given painting by a Historic or Recent Wildlife Art Master Whose Work Sold Very Well.
Joni - hmm, not sure I entirely agree with ‘no totally new idea’, though I’d bet it would be a great discussion (and possibly one full of split hairs) to have over a bottle of wine in the Triple D cabin. And what a GREAT story to share about your prairie chickens! sounds like a total illustration of “paint your passion and they will come”, or something like that (mixed metaphors a specialty here).
April 14th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
RE “no totally new idea”
Andre’ Gide may have said it best (though others had undoubtedly said it before)
“Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again.” — Andre’ Gide
The same can be (and probably has been) said of painting:
“Everything has been painted before, but since nobody really observes we have to keep going back and beginning all over again.”
April 15th, 2009 at 5:47 am
Larry’s comments above are what I was really reflecting upon. If you think about how many people there have been in the world that paint, and that each person has ideas that they express in their art, it is hard to imagine that there is really anything out there that is completely “new”. Naturally, we can’t see everything that has ever been done. So we we have no way of knowing for sure if our idea is really a “virgin” idea. It may be new to us, but is it REALLY new?
On the copying another artist thing, it is my FIRM opinion that there simply is no excuse for it. I an artist doesn’t have their own voice, then they shouldn’t sing…
April 15th, 2009 at 8:27 am
I personally believe that the main thing is not whether or not a subject has been painted before, but that it’s never been done by a particular artist, so it allows the viewer to see it with fresh eyes.
Think Bob Kuhn (I know that Julie and I do). There’s a zillion lion paintings out there, but nobody can duplicate Bob’s point of view and emotional response, or yours or mine, or at least they shouldn’t be doing that. The attempt to do so is where the derivative work comes from that is so tedious.
So, in that sense, it doesn’t matter if snow geese have been painted a million times in the past. JULIE has never painted them before and the filtering, selection, editing and emotional response she brings to them makes them new all over again.
“Everything old is new again”
April 15th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
And, if all of us painted some snow geese- if we were all with Julie that day and took reference photos too- all the paintings would look different in some ways. That is the joy of painting!!
And no, of course direct copying is wrong…otherwise I would ‘own’ several ‘original’ Rungius paintings!!!
April 16th, 2009 at 7:21 am
In the “old days”, painters learned their trade by copying what the masters had done, but of course, the purpose was to learn rather than sell.
but I’d note the distinction between copying a painting and “copying” an idea.
As far as “copying ideas” (eg, a lion chasing a gazelle), I’d have to say that I can’t see anything wrong (or even negative) with that. When it comes to painting nature, the “idea” does not really “belong” to any particular artist. After all, the lion had it first!
April 16th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Artists are a product of their surroundings- some may unintentionally be influenced by others but to openly plagiarize isn’t kosher or artistic. As is goes in Hamlet..”to thine own self be true.”
Great blog nice work.
April 18th, 2009 at 7:08 am
Here’s a story where the “plagiarize” concept got out of hand…
As some may know (and some may not), I spent 22 years as an illustrator at Hallmark Cards before becoming a wildlife painter. We learned early on at Hallmark never to push an illustrative look too far towards our “inspiration”. Hallmark was a big target then…($$$) and constantly had litigation against them despite every attempt by the company and it’s artists to NEVER plagiarize. They had a zero tolerance rule on this, for obvious reasons
Later, we ran into an “interesting” predicament. Hallmark began to license the artwork of a well known Dutch nature painter. This painter sold like hot cakes for Hallmark and was a bit of a “Golden Goose”. An image that this painter often used in her work was a bumble bee. Many of her pieces featrued bees kind of as a garnish in the work. This artist saw a bumble bee as kind of her “trade mark”.
As the in house Hallmark illustrators began to paint bees too, this Dutch artist became so upset about it that Hallmark held a big meeting with all of the in-house painters. We were no longer allowed to use bees of any species in our illustrations.
This is a bit of an extreme illustration of how “touchy” the plagiarize concept can be with some people. I didn’t know that any artist “owned” an entire species….I guess I thought that maybe only God did that…
Animals have certain habits. If you go to Africa, you will see certain animals doing certain things. It is unrealistic to think that each and every artist is going to paint something completely different each time. So repeating ideas is natural…..as long as you DON’T paint bumble bees!
April 18th, 2009 at 7:14 am
I could be wrong (have been before a couple times), but I think “plagiarism” actually applies specifically to written works.
Also, even “copyright” does not apply to an “idea” but only to the specific representation” of the idea. So if I use the ‘idea” of a lion chasing a gazelle to make a painting, I am not necessarily infringing on the paintings of Bob Kuhn or others.
I’d simply have to say that this is one of those areas that is very subjective. People have lots of opinions but there is no hard and fast rule to follow.
and it’s not just a matter of legal definitions because it is very possible for one artist to use the very same “idea” that another one used and produce something that is very different from and even “better” (subjective again) than what the first artist produced.
April 18th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Joni:
How about a bumble bee chasing a lion chasing a gazelle?
I’ve been toying with that idea for a while now, but you’re saying maybe I should reconsider?
April 18th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
I thoroughly enjoy how these discussions evolve, and we get to the heart (or meat) of a particular issue. Susan and Lori said it well - our own personal response to reference material makes our artwork unique. It is tremendous fun to see folks come to the Triple D workshops, then create radically different paintings of the same exact animal that 10 other people saw in a particular photo shoot. And yes, as Larry notes, Nature had all the original ideas a very long time ago - our blessing (or curse, or passion) is to respond individually to those ideas in our works of art.
BTW, Joni, what a bizarre tale about Hallmark and bumblebees. For pete’s sake.
April 19th, 2009 at 6:39 am
Larry:
You could paint a lion who has recently been STUNG by a bumble bee and is now mad at the gazelle… Maybe you could show just the stinger (I don’t think the Dutch artist ever painted just a stinger).
April 19th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Julie says “It is tremendous fun to see folks come to the Triple D workshops [wichisshhh…wichisshhh…and now give me 300 laps around the cabin] , then create radically different paintings of the same exact animal that 10 other people saw in a particular photo shoot.”
That may just be because some of us have not yet figured out the focusing mechanism on our camera. At least that’s the excuse I always use when people say “Nice dog…Great Dane, right?” to “compliment” my mountain lion paintings.
Joni: I think I’ll stay away from the paintings of “stingers”. Don’t want to get stung with a lawsuit by Sting.
April 19th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
I showed my portfolio to a Hallmark recruiter who came to the Academy of Art shortly before graduation (1989). I was definitely more interested in paper product type work than editorial and, it appeared from the response, that if I had been willing to move to Kansas City…..but what was important to me at that point was, was I good enough to get a job at a place like Hallmark. We heard these incredible stories about how coddled the illustrators were to keep them productive. I suspect that’s all gone now.
But card work is a perfect example of how an artist has to find a way to be creative in treading the well-worn paths of things like Father’s Day cards, Santa Claus, but not bees, apparently :-).
Joni, I have always kind of envied that fact that you did work there. I just blogged about illustrators becoming “fine artists”, and how that training shines through, which is certainly true in your case.
April 20th, 2009 at 6:32 am
Thanks for the kind words Susan.
It is true that commercial illustrators learn a kind of “polish” in their work because they paint (or in the case now, move a mouse around) every day. I knew that every single image that I painted was going to be published and sold either here or in Europe and that Hallmark had a rather large financial investment in each image. I also knew that if I did not perform well, there were thousands of illustrators in the country out there that would happily take my place. So it was a mixture of passion and pressure.
The incredible stories you heard about pampered Hallmark illustrators actually were accurate. When I started there in 1984, Halllmark was in the top 10 most desirable companies to work for in the US. Even though there was this undercurrent of pressure mentioned above, it was like a Disney Land environment to work in (as long as you were producing). They sent us on lavish trips for inspriation. They did “think tank” workshops (which were AMAZING), we had constant parties (for each and every birthday). Indeed all was well in the “Emerald City”…back when sales were great.
Eventually, sagging sales brought tougher times and a tougher mind set in management. In time things sadly went from tough to desperate. The human animal does not handle desperation well…not in any case. And artistic temperaments, (even ones that are hardened to the commercial art environment) suffer terribly. What a sad, sad place my beloved Hallmark became.
I don’t regret one single day that I spent in a commercial illustration environment. Not only was it like being payed for going to school (Hallmark University) but I learned quite a lot about working with an assortment of people, about things like how to use the work of others as inspiration without copying it, about pushing yourself and trying new things, and about things like time management. As many, many of my Hallmark friends were let go in down sizing, I left on my own (I decided to jump ship before the great liner found itself on the ocean floor). I felt very lucky to have something else (painting wildlife and training dogs) that I really wanted to do and was passionate about.
The talent pool at Hallmark was and still is AMAZING. The “dumbed up for the public” product does not reflect the brilliance of the artists there.
April 20th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
I would have been happy if I had gotten traction as an Illustrator. I was proud to be a part of an art tradition that included people like NC Wyeth, Howard Pyle, Edwin Austin Abbey, JC Leyendecker, Al Parker, etc…..but it just was not to be. Wildlife/nature painting is the path that opened for me, thanks in part to John Seerey-Lester, and I’m not looking back, except to appreciate what there is to learn from great artists like all those great illustrators of the past.
So many of my teachers are painters now. The schools keep cranking out illustration graduates, but if you don’t want to work for EA or Pixar, the career options are very limited. At least with painting, there’s always the feeling that the sky is the limit if you are willing to work hard and keep learning. And be ready for a little luck.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:06 am
is true that commercial illustrators learn a kind of “polish” in their work because they paint (or in the case now, move a mouse around) every day.
I don’t think computer animation will EVER capture the “magic” of tradition illustration.
Every time i watch computer illustration and animated stuff, there is something about it that just really bothers me. Don’t get me wrong. It looks “cool” but it lacks something that traditional (hand painted) illustration and animation have or maybe it possesses something “bad” they don’t.
maybe it’s just because i grew up on Walt Disney (Fantasia, etc) and have become accustomed to it, but I think there’s more to it than that.
It’s hard to put my finger on it, but I’d have to say that the computer animated stuff looks TOO perfect (with every animal hair in place, etc) which makes it look very unnatural.
Incidentally: That’s what initially attracted me most about Julie’s art work (all the animal hairs are out of place!) and made me want to take (a chance on) her first workshop. Paul Bonner and I were guinea pigs. Certainly no regrets. I learned how to paint animal hairs out of place(sorry, Julie, but it’s true..and, as I indicated, it’s a good thing, or at least i think so)
note: I’m not a “techno-phobe” by any means. I have been working with and programming computers for over 30 years now. Then again, maybe that’s part of it. maybe I have come to expect more from computers than they (and programmers like me) have delivered. maybe some day computer illustration/animation will come of age, but it ain’t there yet.
April 21st, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Indeed, computer animation tends to be very “cold” and unhuman. Especially animals and people (and low budget dinosuar documentaries). In fact, I think computer animated people are down right creepy! BUT there is a big difference between what we are seeing in current animated movies, and in un-animated computer generated illustration. I was a painter during my entire career at Hallmark so I never developed the computer skills that many of my friends there now have. In many cases these days, even an educated eye would not be able to tell the difference between a computer generated illustration and a painted one when done by many of my computer savy friends. They are doing work that looks just like hand painted watercolor, loose oils, etc. It really is amazing.
To me, computer generated animation is much like “canned” music. My father was a professional musician (a trombone player). The very thing that makes music so magical is the human element of it, you know, the part that comes from the heart. My dad could bring me to tears with his music. Canned music is music that is generated digitally. It is perfect, cold and impersonal. The imperfections in animal hair, in the way trees grow, in the way an artist interprets all of these things is where the essence of being human is. So Larry, I quite agree with you, especially concerning digital animation.
April 22nd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
What a fascinating discussion! There are times when I wished I’d had the practical training of illustration - especially when I’m envying Bob Kuhn’s work. But then again, I am very grateful for the priceless business education I received at HP / Agilent. Ah, so many life paths and so little time!
Larry, I laughed out loud at your comments in #16 post; the whip cracks are authentic, of course, but I never thought about lapping the cabin. Heh heh heh…the summer workshop will probably wish you’d never posted.
April 24th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
I’m curious. Are they simply taking digital photographs (eg, of animals) and processing the images?
I have photo processing software that (supposedly) produces “paintings’ (oils, watercolors, pastel, etc) from digital photos, but quite frankly, the results don’t look at all like real paintings. Not even close. It’s very easy (even for a novice painter like me) to tell the difference.
So Hall mark must either be using some very sophisticated image processing software to “convert” photos to “paintings” or they are doing something different than merely processing digital photos.
of course, now you have piqued my interest and i will have to get some hall mark cards and magnify the images to see what this is all about!
May 4th, 2009 at 6:49 am
Larry, I don’t think you understand what I am saying. Most of the illustrators at Hallmark are not photographers at all (in fact many are downright lousy with anything but PHD (press here dummy) cameras. They are not converting photos into illustrations with fancy software. They are very skilled ILLUSTRATORS and generate images on a computer directly from their minds. They use software like Photoshop and Illustrator (among others) to take what is in their heads and create beautiful images. I am starting to do this here at home myself (for licensing) and with practice am now able to get a look that is very much like my painted images for Hallmark looked. I am not as skilled as my digital friends YET, but am catching up with some experimentation. It is a ton of fun. My husband sais that he can now hardly tell the difference between my painted Hallmark work and work I’ve recently done on Photoshop. The work I’m doing by the way is NOT wildlife. I am a professional dog trainer / behaviorist and am doing whymsical dog illustrations, again, for licensing purposes.
A computer is just a tool. You can draw on it and paint on it. It is really no different than learning how to paint with a brush. The basic elements of composition, color, edges, lighting, etc are the same. The only difference is that you use a Wacom pad instead of a canvas. It’s really pretty exciting.
May 4th, 2009 at 7:16 am
Joni, I’ve been intrigued by what might be possible in Photoshop - or perhaps better yet, a drawing/painting program - with a tablet. My Photoshop skills right now have simply been focused on processing photos and some graphic design. Don’t have a tablet, would love to try that with the right software…just too darn many fun possibilities in the world!
May 6th, 2009 at 6:01 am
Julie,
Photoshop is SO darned much fun. It is a drawing and painting program. Most of my friends at Hallmark use this program for their illustrations. The sky is the limit with Photoshop. I am drawing on a Wacom pad with a “brush” and as I said before, recently have finally been getting my painted look (with the whymsical dogs). I can’t justify the time it would take to do full blown illustrations yet, but have been asked a couple of times lately to illustrate children’s books. I would use this “new” look I’m developing if I chose to do that.
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